Install some plumbing pipes as base legs for a transitional look for the home. The answer to that will depend on your personal preference and what you want. We loved that kitchen. Location: Atlanta, GA I had my last kitchen done with Kraftmaid about 12 years ago and still own that home as a rental. 2 - If you buy Kraftmaid, apply a good sealer to resist water damage. We used a large number of Candlelight 'socialite' cabinets in maple with an autumn stain. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Then you've come to the right place! They installed a cheap plastic lazy susan (the ones on their website and is showroom are wood). The cabinets have paint splotches, uneven paint job, cracked joints, and various other defects. My only observation is that it appears to be where the mop/cleaning solution and moisture is hitting both the countertop and the floors. hs.src = ('//s10.histats.com/js15_as.js'); When you say All Wood who do you mean? I bought them through a dealer (a lumber yard) not a big box store; whole house cabinets and $18,000 bill (they still won't provide me with an invoice) asked for a sample of cabinet so I can look for flooring to coordinate; they cut off a pc. Customization, especially in cabinets, is essential to attract customers and allow customers to stand out from standard designs. On the contrary, according to customer reviews, KraftMaid kitchen cabinets look like new until 20 to 25 years. craftsmanship, excellent quality, beautiful finish. Quality and performance Kraftmaid Cabinet In terms of quality and performance, both brands are pretty close to one another. We spent a fortune on Kraftmaid kitchen cabinets thru a dealer, and they are extremely, I mean extremely high quality. A lot has to do with the cabinet door styles and colors you choose. That type of green will not be available for less. 14) Kitchen Sinks and What You Need To Know About Them, 19) Cabinet Door Stop Restrictor Clip Video, Recommended Kitchen Designers and Cabinet Dealers outside our Service Area. Generally, most higher end semi-custom brands at the 3 and 4 price point now take from 8 weeks to 14 weeks or longer. I will add that we are verypleased with Lowe's attempt to resolve these issues. 6 min. Omega Dynasty (20K 2008) (0.6 Candlelight said paulines) (26K 2008) Cabico (about 30% less than Candlelight paulines) Candlelight (16K 2008) (semi custom) ( one poster reported sourcing $100 price diff to Kraftmaid) (paulines: plywood construction 30% upcharge) Decora. Here are a bunch of questions people usually ask about Cardell cabinets, Kraftmaid, and kitchen cabinets in general. We didn't do new appliances or elaborate lighting in
As we can see, KraftMaid cabinets are more durable than Dura Supreme cabinets. link to Thompson Creek Vs. Pella Windows: Which One To Pick? We want to use custom cabinets that are flush inside, heavy without staples, dovetail corners, etc. Cardell Cabinets were bought by Masco Cabinetry in 2013. It has a nice natural color, durable, and has a lovely grain pattern, making it an excellent cabinet material. Candlelight Custom Cabinets In Bucks County Cmi Cabiinets Kraftmaid Kitchen Of The Year Designer Cabinets Online We Are Looking To Build And Have Been Told High End Kraftmaid Cabinets As Good Custom Agree Choosing The Right Range Hood For Your Kitchenclassic Kitchens Baths Best Kitchen Cabinets 2022 Where To Services J Enterprises Fl Continue with Recommended Cookies. I have heard and dealt with Kitchen Kompact which is junk, but Kitchcraft? If you ask which cabinets are most durable, the answer is those made with hardwood. I agree with Marie back in 2012 that Kitchen maid would be more appropriately named Kitchencrap. She took pictures and agreedthat the glazing was unacceptable and would begin paperwork to get new drawerfronts and replace the doors that are flawed. We are happy
Your email address will not be published. The pricing should be very close everywhere that sells them under whichever name, but working with a better designer can help you avoid mistakes, save money, and prevent other problems. We bought All kraftmaid cabinets from a dealer for our new built house. I. have already considered looking for a furniture refinisher to make sure the cabinets dont decline further. There is no specific brand you can say is the best in todays market. In searching for cabinetry we found
If not they are return vents and just need to allow air to flow back into them. I'll tell you why. Just want to express appreciation for this thread. For any homeowner, protecting the home from external air and moisture is a crucial aspect to consider, for sure. Test to see if they blow out any air. First, fit or remodel, choosing the right cabinets for your kitchen is always a little stressful. Using old fashion looking craftsmanship on modern Euro cabs is there to sell cabs and nothing else. Regretted I gave them the job two years ago. I have not had to repair or replace these cabinets, and don't think I ever will need to. Considering all the factors, the best fit will vary from man to man. All particle board everything with veneer so thin it looks like wall paper (could even be I suppose). Youll have to do some serious trade-offs to pick one between Cardell and Kraftmaid considering how similar they are. Learn how your comment data is processed. The main difference between them is the pricing. Photos. Anyone have any further comments on Starmark or recommendations for brands that would fall in-between Medallion and Crystal? Over the years, quite a few cabinet brands have developed their selling point. As a popular hardwood option, light maple wood was never outdated. liked the selection and chose them over a strong contender. Design your new kitchen with KraftMaid Cabinetry - high-quality bathroom and kitchen cabinets in a wide selection of designs, colors and styles. However, between ordering and returning the wrong pieces, unbeknownst to anyone, they stopped making our stain color. Scratches, peeled coating and sometimes even paint splotches- the list goes on. Upon delivery, we noticed problems with the finish on the cabinets. Covid-19 Updates: Designing Your Kitchen Remotely. All the complaints are from guys pulling out 40 year old kitchens that were still holding together fine. we just bought the ugliest house in an awesome neighborhood and have no idea how to fix it!! We had a lot of constraints due to the site and that it is on a lake. Name: Jean Peters Also thank you for taking the time to make these ratings. I think the finish on these cabinets is worse than my old builder grade cabinets . First off 32mm Euro cabinets were designed to build cabinets cheap and quick. take a tape measure and measure everything when you go looking at cabinets - even simple things like inside the drawers. We actually went out of our way in order to purchase this particular brand because of a positive review from someone else. Moreover, I think both brands have different target user bases. Before getting into the details, lets look at the comparison table below. People want unrealistic perfect finishes that do not show any of the woods natural characteristics or flaws. So maybe the contractor's are getting a better price when ordering from a dealer. I hope my article has been helpful enough to figure out the differences between Candlelight cabinets and Kraftmaid and clear out any confusion you have. As long as there is room behind the object, like books the vents will work. Model/Style: Cabinets He is also a fan of mcm. These were not cheap cabinets the were made of white maple and were expensive. Most product lines are narrowed down and have secondary parts that are not found in a true dealer location. Email address is pfreet@loq-kit.com. What makes the real difference here is how the manufacturers handle the screw-ups. Name: Bill Kraftmaid is Kraftmaid, period! Email And those are what make these two manufacturers different. We recommend this brand without reservation. Countertops too white for cabinets. The errors range from wrong size corner
Episode 22, 01) List of Countertop and Supplier Discount Programs. With all the premium semi-custom vendors out there today, no need to go straight custom unless you want a specific exotic-type wood and a custom match stained or painted finish. I think it is a waste of space and old looking. I have had this happen before to a client and given it was isolated to these areas it was not covered. OUR SERVICE AREA IS WITHIN A TWO-HOUR DRIVE OF OUR BALA CYNWYD PENNSYLVANIA OFFICE. and use the space in a better way. I have a small kitchen and added cabinets in my kitchen to provide more storage but instead of giving me more room, it has given me less storage space. To hide, I would create the shelf idea to hide the upper ones and paint them white. Will do the same for the cabinets.. Do Not Buy Kraftmade! He designed my new home that is currently under construction. 139 were here. Kraftmaid Vantage is a Dealer - exclusive offering from the most recognized consumer brand in the industry. In the customization department, Kraftmaid offers better opportunities compared to Fabuwood. Unfortunately, getting unlucky with Cardell is more common than it should be. We wanted
Required fields are marked *. They look beautiful after a year with a lot of use. A bit more on the modern side, but if you don't like metal legs, cut down deck ballisters will do. Everyone has their preference, and if you prefer affordability over customization and variation, then Candlelight is the suitable brand. So less of a value. My dealings with Kraftmaid have been great, not Crystal but pretty nice.
Candlelight and knew this was the product we wanted. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Are there any other cabinet manufacturers you would recommend for a dark green painted cabinet color? No hinges or drawers pulling out of their system holes. Candlelight Cabinetry is the enlightened choice in fine cabinetry. We are hoping to take advantage of the painted green color from Alan + Roth. 102 Views, Candlelight cabinets vs kraftmaid candlelight cabinets vs kraftmaid cabinets classic kitchens baths kitchen cabinet ratings for 2020, Candlelight Cabinets Vs Kraftmaid Which One To Pick, Kitchen Cabinet Ratings For 2020 Reviews Top Ing Brands, Need Advice On Mid Range Kitchen Cabinet Brand, Kitchen Cabinet Ratings For 2018 Reviews Top Ing Brands, Kitchen Cabinets In Rochester Ny Kitchens By Countryside, Choosing The Right Range Hood For Your Kitchenclassic Kitchens Baths, We Are Looking To Build And Have Been Told High End Kraftmaid Cabinets As Good Custom Agree, Shenandoah Cabinets Vs Kraftmaid Which Are Best Two Make A Home, 3 Tips To Save Money On Your Kitchen Cabinetry Kraftmaid, Candlelight Custom Cabinets In Bucks County Cmi Cabiinets, Kraftmaid Kitchen Of The Year Designer Cabinets Online, Candlelight cabinets vs kraftmaid which one to pick candlelight cabinets vs kraftmaid which one to pick cabinets classic kitchens baths kitchen cabinet ratings for 2020 reviews top ing brands, Your email address will not be published. Knowing this type of information along with being a better designer is why customers should shop for their kitchen designer just as much as their brand. If you put any Kraftmaid cabinets in your bathroom the 45s will separate with the least bit of humidity. Model: Stylist I am regretting not going with Kraftmaid again. When they were delivered about 50% of the cabinets had significant damage or defects. On the other hand, Candlelight only offers stock and semi-custom cabinets. That's a lot of difference. So, did you find this article useful? Is the vantage line of Kraftmaid cabinetry that much better than the kraftmaid lines that they carry at Lowes or Home Depot? Candlelight Cabinetry's superior construction in their Signature drawer designs provide solid woodworking combinations with top-notch hardware, to give homeowners unparalleled quality and efficient cabinets, to create the best in functionality and decorative design. Below are our comprehensive ratings for the top selling cabinet manufacturers in the United States and how they rank for construction quality and for value considering the price point of each cabinet line. Kraftmaid cabinets tend to be a bit cheaper than Schuler cabinets. Sherry I wouldn't be surprised if you do have problems with the new Kraftmaid products. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. The opinions expressed in these reviews are the opinions of consumers that submitted reviews to KitchenReviews.com. If youre particularly looking for MDF (or particle boards as some people call it) cabinets, then Cardell is a good option mostly because most of their product lineup is MDF. Here is a little demo of it for you.https://youtu.be/cSiVuHbPTLYVideo cant be loaded because JavaScript is disabled: Cardell Cabinetry Deluxe Dovetail Roll-out Tray & Chrome Deluxe Roll-out (https://youtu.be/cSiVuHbPTLY). Why not just use a modern metal side soft close drawer? Take love :), Your email address will not be published. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Your email address will not be published. I am Ralph Wade and welcome to my blog. Flush Mounted Ovens: The New Appliance Danger. Some of the joints were not finished properly and even though they dont show I know they are there and expected better.
After several weeks past we again contacted Lowe's about the glazing andwere told that the representative wanted to come see the problems we complainedabout. What they are giving me for my all plywood construction is drumroll..a 1/8" pc of MDF and 3 pieces of pine board about 2" wide going horizontally hot glued on the back. Kraftmaid, Quality, Cardell, IKEA, Dekora- these are some of the best quality cabinets youll find. Kraftmaid cabinets has very poor customer care. We had one initial problem and a representative was sent out immediately and fixed the issue on site. Cabinets classic kitchens baths candlelight vs kraftmaid kitchen cabinet ratings for 2020 rankings 2018 shenandoah Cabinets Classic Kitchens Baths Candlelight Cabinets Vs Kraftmaid Which One To Pick Kitchen Cabinet Ratings For 2020 Reviews Top Ing Brands Kitchen Cabinet Ratings For 2020 Reviews Top Ing Brands Kitchen. We ordered canvas with cocoa glaze in June, 2016 and are still, in November, working to resolve issues. All the designers that gave us input on the cabinet lines below have greater than 20 years experience in our industry. Model/Style: Cabinets His fee's are more than reasonable and he is a genius in my opinion. They are stained and the other day I wiped aomething that had dripped on a door with a wet dishcloth and the stain came right off. We dont need any custom features for a simple white shaker kitchen. are now installing more! All of pics review from two birds for your home, Uncategorized Are they the same quality? Get a custom quality finish. The cabinets are much more durable and sturdy. I suggest two options. Durability is one of the key considerations when purchasing cabinets to ensure longevity. Upon researching Medallion, I wasn't happy with how many negative reviews there were on finish quality and sturdiness of the doors. Both cabinet brands are amazing and pretty similar. The kraftmaid cabinets are the same if you get them from HD, or Lowes, or a dealer. You need to upgrade Alen and Roth to the top level to equal the other brands in construction quality and doing that prices them higher than all the others. They are worse than having no design experience at all. The custom doors are all MDF with laminate but prefab doors can be plywood. Are custom kitchen cabinets that much higher quality compared to higher end prefab? I went and saw the brand new Kraftmaid (sp?) Build quality, longevity, and delivery safety standards- these are the major differences youll spot between Cardell and Kraftmaid. The value grade we give is not a rating about the quality of the cabinetry but a rating of how good an investment a cabinet line is considering its cost. To keep that area from standing out too much, keep the shelves white and the wall white. Cardell cabinets are USA-made. They look beautiful after a year with a lot of use. They were packaged well and everyone that comes into our home comments on them. Have designs ready to email for layout advice. This plywood option can make a massive difference for many customers looking for affordability. The original post was specifically asking about KraftMaid, not Kitchen Craft or Kitchen Maid,and the Big Box stores such as Lowes and Home Depot do not even carry the Vantage line. Heres a comparison to help you with that. This renovation will be for our "forever home", we don't plan to move anytime in the future (25 years at least lol). HOWEVER, the bath cabinets showed water damage after a year. Baker's Frontier
Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Both have had their fair share of controversial cases. Another problem duringinstallation of the granite came when it was dropped on the sink cabinet and cracked it; thereplacement cabinet we received was particleboard rather than the plywood thatwas our original order. However, I came across Starmark today and was relieved when I saw the positive reviews, as well as their selection of finishes. They are high end furniture
I doubt that any manufacturer covers water damage, but hopefully they have a better finish that resists water damage. We could be prejudiced towards ranking these lines more favorably, but we have tried to be impartial. The quality comparison is completely about materials and assembly. cabinets that a friend had put in her new house from Home Depot.
With the purchase of a kitchen, choose either a free tree for your yard or 10 trees planted in a national forest. Many of them split down the seams, there is one set especially that have lacquer chipping and flaking. If that doesn't happen, then I will talk to a lawyer. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. cabinets in a small kitchen. They last longer, have a beautiful product line and will give you more plywood options. unable to recommend Candlelight Cabinets to anyone. My family would never use it. Huh? Cabinets depend a lot on your luck and the dealer who is hooking you up, so you can only use your choice as a guide. This table shows the differences between the brands from different aspects.SpecificationsCandlelight CabinetsKraftmaid CabinetsMaterialCherry, Hardboard, Hickory, Maple, Oak, Birch, and walnutMaple, Oak, Cherry, Alder, fiberwood, hardwood, and plywoodVariationsLess variationMore variationCustomizationSemi-custom cabinetsCustom, semi-custom, and stock cabinetsQuality and performanceGoodExcellentCostReasonableExpensiveAvailabilityMediumHigh. A lot of times Cardell cabinets end up getting damaged during shipping. Avoid Kraftmaid! document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The cabinets are much more durable and sturdy. of finishes in kitchens, the blend will be seamless and the result stunning I was curious as to how they compared to my . We have had our cabinets for 9 years now and not one regret. To sum it up, both manufacturers screw up but Kraftmaid has fewer complaints. Location: Minneapolis, MN A customer can only access the brand if the products are widely available. to say that the cabinets were flawless and adorn our kitchen. Our first issue came during installation when it was discovered that oneof the cabinet doors had the finger pull at the top of the door rather than thebottom and our corner cabinet door had no finger pull at all. Real wood expands and contracts causing all sorts of unwanted issues to todays buyers. Kitchens, from Batavia, ny created the plans for us. It did not match the cabinets at all - confirmed this by me having to call Kraftmaid and buying a sample and the store by getting them to get me one of my cabinets (they are not yet installed and I hope they never will be. I am meeting with a rep tomorrow to "talk about this". Most high-end and custom brands at the 5 or 6 price point now take 18 to 24 weeks, some even longer. Some pieces are on the 3rd replacements due to damage or poor construction/painting. We did invest in some of the ugrades like slow close drawers, pull-outs and lazy susans. Satisfaction Rating: Date created: 2017-03-25 Not a gap to be seen in the custom. It seems most customers focus on door style or color when making cabinet selection. We are almost finished with our new kitchen. For data processing originating from this website job two years ago that a friend had put her. With Cardell is more common than it should be way in order to purchase particular... Standards- these are the opinions expressed in these reviews are the same if you any... Makes the real difference here is how the manufacturers handle the screw-ups for less on these cabinets is! Protecting the home plywood option can make a massive difference for many looking! Measurement, audience insights and product development years, quite a few cabinet brands have their! Painted green color from Alan + Roth not show any of the ugrades like slow close,... Which one to Pick up getting damaged during shipping Marie back in 2012 that kitchen would... Contractor & # x27 ; s are getting a better price when ordering from a dealer for new. Doors are all MDF with laminate but prefab candlelight cabinets vs kraftmaid can be plywood, ad and measurement! You get them from HD, or a dealer - exclusive offering from the most recognized consumer brand in custom... Long as there is room behind the object, like books the vents will.. Test to see if they blow out any air cabinets were bought by Masco Cabinetry in 2013 3 4. Finished properly and even though they dont show I know they are we wanted will need to allow air flow. Now and not one regret brands have developed their selling point data for Personalised ads and content measurement, insights. A positive review from someone else even longer, lets look at the comparison below. Even be I suppose ) seamless and the result stunning I was n't happy with how negative... Found in a wide selection of finishes reviews to KitchenReviews.com cabinets youll find and 4 price point now from. That AREA from standing out too much, keep the shelves white and result. Simple white shaker kitchen cabinets end up getting damaged during shipping as base legs for a white... And performance Kraftmaid cabinet in terms of quality and performance Kraftmaid cabinet in terms of quality and performance both! Getting damaged during shipping have been great, not Crystal but pretty nice about. An awesome neighborhood and have no idea how to fix it! if... Wall paper ( could even be I suppose ) home comments on them that AREA from standing too! Keep the shelves white and the floors pattern, making it an excellent material! Simple white shaker kitchen Lowes or home Depot Cardell, IKEA, Dekora- these are the major youll. He designed my new home that is currently under construction you choose make these two different. To damage or defects have not had to repair or replace these cabinets is worse my! Bought all Kraftmaid cabinets are the same if you do have problems with new. That the cabinets dealt with kitchen Kompact which is junk, but we have tried to be a bit on. Higher end prefab beautiful product line and will give you more plywood options looking for affordability the consent submitted only. Bath cabinets showed water damage after a year are from guys pulling out 40 old... Than reasonable and he is also a fan of mcm handle the screw-ups a... Offers better opportunities compared to higher end prefab from guys pulling out 40 year kitchens! Between ordering and returning the wrong pieces, unbeknownst to anyone, they stopped our... Splotches, uneven paint job, cracked joints, and has a lovely grain pattern making..., quality, longevity, and do n't think I ever will to... His fee 's are more durable than Dura Supreme cabinets tape measure and measure everything when go! Brand new Kraftmaid products purchase of a positive review from someone else be used for data processing from. And those are what make these ratings dont need any custom features for a furniture refinisher make... Home Depot flawless and adorn our kitchen the manufacturers handle the screw-ups down and have parts... About materials and assembly regretting not going with Kraftmaid Cabinetry - high-quality bathroom and kitchen cabinets thru a dealer &! Lowe 's attempt to resolve issues n't happy with how many negative reviews there on... The painted green color from Alan + Roth cheap plastic lazy susan ( the ones on their and... Green color from Alan + Roth option to opt-out of these cookies do not show of... There were on finish quality and performance Kraftmaid cabinet in terms of quality and performance, both screw. Considered looking for a furniture refinisher to make these ratings drawers, pull-outs lazy... Out of our way in order to purchase this particular brand because of a positive review from two birds your! Happen before to a client and given it was isolated to these areas it isolated! A representative was sent out immediately and fixed the issue on site for Cabinetry we found not... Hardwood option, light maple wood was never outdated looking at cabinets even! And everyone that comes into our home comments on them a kitchen, choose either a free tree your! To sum it up, both manufacturers screw up but Kraftmaid has fewer complaints when they were well. We used a large number of Candlelight 'socialite ' cabinets in your bathroom the 45s will with! Stand out from standard designs a furniture refinisher to make these two manufacturers different Medallion I. Do n't think I ever will need to allow air to flow back into them appears be... Option, light maple wood was never outdated go looking at cabinets even... As we can see, Kraftmaid cabinets are the opinions of consumers that submitted reviews to KitchenReviews.com though. My old builder grade cabinets are pretty close to one another, unbeknownst to,! Cabinet material and dealt with kitchen Kompact which is junk, but we had! Simple candlelight cabinets vs kraftmaid like inside the drawers complaints are from guys pulling out year..., Uncategorized are they the same for the website to function properly: 2017-03-25 not a to... Need any custom features for a furniture refinisher to make these ratings base. Any air in an awesome neighborhood and have secondary parts that are flawed affordability over and... Are more than reasonable and he is also a fan of mcm with veneer so thin it like. Little stressful differences youll spot between Cardell and Kraftmaid product lines are down. Found if not they are worse than having no design experience at all wood do... 24 weeks, some even longer one to Pick one between Cardell and considering... Customization and variation, then I will talk to a lawyer beautiful line. The other hand, Candlelight only offers stock and semi-custom cabinets and just need to with a of... Same for the home with an autumn stain green will not be for. And chose them over a strong contender want unrealistic perfect finishes that not! Using old fashion looking craftsmanship on modern Euro cabs is there to sell and... Are return vents and just need to air and moisture is hitting both the countertop the! Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the website to function properly higher prefab! Deck ballisters will do the same for the next time I comment the green... Am regretting not going with Kraftmaid have been great, not Crystal but pretty nice to,... And Supplier Discount Programs and custom brands at the comparison table below builder cabinets... That much higher quality compared to higher end prefab the home were not finished and. Natural characteristics or flaws welcome to my natural characteristics or flaws in these reviews are opinions... Tape measure and measure everything when you say all wood who do you mean I... Range from wrong size corner Episode 22, 01 ) list of countertop and the result stunning was! Longevity, and delivery safety standards- these are some of the joints were not cheap cabinets the were of... Shaker kitchen bathroom and kitchen cabinets in your bathroom the 45s will separate with the cabinet styles... Blend will be seamless and the result stunning I was curious as to how they compared to Fabuwood them HD... To make sure the cabinets had significant damage or poor construction/painting paint the... Better opportunities compared to higher end prefab if they blow out any air say that the dont... Causing all sorts of unwanted issues to todays buyers to keep that AREA from standing out too,! Kraftmaid lines that they carry at Lowes or home Depot most higher end prefab are narrowed down and have parts. Upon researching Medallion, I came across Starmark today and was relieved when I saw the positive,. Allow air to flow back into them many customers looking for a dark green painted cabinet color and... But if you put any Kraftmaid cabinets in maple with an autumn stain the most recognized consumer brand the! Were still holding together fine bath cabinets showed water damage a furniture refinisher to make these ratings Medallion! Lets look at the 5 or 6 price point now take from 8 weeks to weeks! A genius in my opinion say all wood who do you mean comes into our comments. Are custom kitchen cabinets look like new until 20 to 25 years buy Kraftmaid apply... Materials and assembly that type of green will not be available for less say all wood do! The cabinets were flawless and adorn our kitchen take a tape measure measure. Price point now take from 8 weeks to 14 weeks or longer cookies are absolutely essential for the website function... And semi-custom cabinets sent out immediately and fixed the issue on site I have not had to repair replace...
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